Which language (2d games)

[adzy-2k6]

I am interested in learning a programming language that is capable of allowing me to make 2d platformer games, without being too over complicated (while allowing me a reasonable amount of control). I was thinking of AS, but flash is way too expensive for a person on a students allowance, particularly since it will only be a small hobby for when im not revising my college work. ive heard C++ is a good language, but does anyone know any others? Thanks for any advice

[Vector]

Might want to check out Game Maker.
It's a great little piece of software for getting started in developing games - it handles a lot of stuff for you but you still need to be able to put some logic together.

[adzy-2k6]

Thanks vector. I have already used game maker, and it was good but felt over simplified to me. The main thing im after is actually learning a programming language, hoping to learn enough to make a simple platformer. I would buy flash, but it is too expensive for a hobby (since i cant realy draw very well at all). This is more to get an insight into how programming works than actually making a game. However for people who just want to make the games, I would reccommend game maker as you did, as it is a very good program for that purpose.

Edit: im not sure if it is actually possable for me to develop a game right now without everything  (sprites etc) being made in the same software as the code, such as in flash or game maker. Any comments ? The good news: A-Level maths is teaching me basically most of the equations of motion that id need to adapt into a program I might actually try game maker again, since it does have its own scripting language i could use for when the base settings arent enough

[Markham]

There's also Construct, which is like a more advanced version of Game Maker or Multi-Media Fusion.  It's free, and I think you can use Python scripting alongside the built in stuff.

Also, Iji was made in Game Maker.

[adzy-2k6]

Well, thanks for both your replys you two, but i have decided to learn C#, as it is a .net language, which means that if i learn it well it can be used for both programming for PC's, and game consoles, which may make it usefull later on. Hoperfully the summer holidays will provide enough time to get a good beginning in the language.

[Markham]

I think C# is PC's and X-Box 360 only.  It's C++ can be ported to any platform.

[adzy-2k6]

I suppose, since .NET is a set of languages that microsoft put in the class. Still, considering i have an interest in how people develop console games, it seems like a good language for me to learn.

[Cel]

I'm a .NET programmer myself, and I gotta tell you, it's not really made for games.

Some things you should know about C#:
1. C# is "compiled" into MSIL (Microsoft Intermediate Language), which then is compiled to bytecode during run time. That makes it slower.
2. C# has a garbage collector. It's an internal mechanism that clears up memory that is no longer being used by your program. That makes it even slower.
3. When writing C++, you usually use codes for your return values to know if a function executed properly, and what was the result. C# on the other hand uses Exceptions all over. Exceptions use up a lot of resources (they're much easier to work with though), and .NET kinda forces you into using them since all the system libraries work that way anyway. That makes it way slower than C++. It won't be able to go beyond simple games.
4. Unless you're planning to write your own 3D engine, you'll need to get one. Those things don't work with .NET. You can always work directly with DirectX, but it has a very steep learning curve. You might want to check out XNA. It's graphics libraries for.NET (Xbox Live games are made with that as well). I hear it simplifies the whole process, but it costs some money.
5. Speaking of learning curves, you need to know the language and programing in general very well before you can get into this kinda stuff. Getting to a level that will allow you to write bug-free and secure software, that is easy to maintain and upgrade, will take a while. Years of experience to be exact. I'm not trying to put you down or anything, but you should know what you're getting into. Games are a LOT more work that just moving objects on the screen.

I think you'd be better off with Flash. It is much more suited for making simple 2D games, and it's easy to distribute. Just put it on Newgrounds or something. If you're not planning to make big and complex 3D games with multiplayer and stuff, there's really no reason to get into that whole C++/C# mess.
If you're serious about getting into that, and making console (360 only, really) games, go check out XNA.

Oh, and BTW, Visual Studio costs $650

[adzy-2k6]

I'm a .NET programmer myself, and I gotta tell you, it's not really made for games.

4. Unless you're planning to write your own 3D engine, you'll need to get one. Those things don't work with .NET. You can always work directly with DirectX, but it has a very steep learning curve. You might want to check out XNA. It's graphics libraries for.NET (Xbox Live games are made with that as well). I hear it simplifies the whole process, but it costs some money.
5. Speaking of learning curves, you need to know the language and programing in general very well before you can get into this kinda stuff. Getting to a level that will allow you to write bug-free and secure software, that is easy to maintain and upgrade, will take a while. Years of experience to be exact. I'm not trying to put you down or anything, but you should know what you're getting into. Games are a LOT more work that just moving objects on the screen.

I think you'd be better off with Flash. It is much more suited for making simple 2D games, and it's easy to distribute. Just put it on Newgrounds or something. If you're not planning to make big and complex 3D games with multiplayer and stuff, there's really no reason to get into that whole C++/C# mess.
If you're serious about getting into that, and making console (360 only, really) games, go check out XNA.

Oh, and BTW, Visual Studio costs $650

I guess your right about most of that. Im mainly interested in learning a programming language overall, with a game hopefully being the end product just as a project at the end of learning how to program. The main reason I chose c# is for the XNA game studio (which is free unless you want to export stuff to xbox), and ofcourse, XNA studio really only works with C# as a language. But I suppose that learning C# as a first (technically second, but I only know basic visual python, which seems way less complicated but less usefull than many other languages) was a little steep. For a game, my main focus was 2d, since I dont know a thing about making images in 3d, and arent that good an artist anyway. Visual C# Studio Express is free, and that is what iIhave been using so far for messing about with arrays and things.

I might try actionscript, since it does seem easier as a whole as the graphic software is integrated with the compiler, making it much simpler (anyway, i found out i can get a quite decent student discount, and since i dont agree with keygens thats my main option). Either way, m primary aim is simply an understanding of programming and a language, with a secondry aim of understanding the programming behind some of my favourate games )

[Markham]

Most schools start you out on Java as a starting language.  If you learn that, it's easier to transition to other languages, especially AS3.

Actually, I'm just going to refer you to http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?board=4.0 where there's much more resources and threads on the subject of programming languages and using them for games.

[adzy-2k6]

Most schools start you out on Java as a starting language.  If you learn that, it's easier to transition to other languages, especially AS3.

Actually, I'm just going to refer you to http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?board=4.0 where there's much more resources and threads on the subject of programming languages and using them for games.

Well, thanks for the advice. Ill try to learn java, but if i cant find many internet resources  ill move to AS3, since although flash with the student discount is still around £100 ish, it is a huge drop, and ill be able to afford that soon. All i need is to figure out if adobe will take my in-college id, or if ill need to apply for a student card. Either way, i can find that out from support, so there isnt much problem there. Thanks

[Cel]

If you want to learn programming in general it really doesn't matter what language you use. The important thing is to learn the concepts of programming, design patterns and how to write secure applications. Once you know that, writing in any language is a matter of learning the syntax.

[supermoose]

I originally learned programming in scheme (laugh it up) but most of what learning to program is, is just getting in the right state of mind.  Its kind of weird but true.  Personally, I would recommend learning to program in java using the free distribution of eclipse. A lot of experienced programmers hat it, because it is a very large and slow program, but the slowness comes with some new-user friendliness.  Whenever you call a command on an object in eclipse, it looks through all of the libraries you have imported to give you a drop down list of all of the commands you COULD use.  Very helpful if you are still learning all of the assorted commands, and would like a helping hand.  Also, java does its own garbage collection, which, as previously mentioned is slower, but it takes away one more thing you need to worry about.  I am actually having a touch time in my C classes at the moment, because i never know when to free up my arrays that I have previously used.  In java, if you don't need something ever again, java deletes it for you.