Disney Classics

[Juggleballz]

With the release of Tim Burtons version of Alice in Wonderland, I became very nostalgic and I went on a hunt to find Alice in Wonderland on DVD. I intended on buying all the classic animations by disney but the DVDs I found were all costing around £45 which is expensive as hell.

Anyway to cut a long story short, my sister had the DVD and I borrowed it because my girlfriend Veronica has never seen it, and I wanted her to see it before going to see the Tim Burton vision tomorrow night.

I have just finished watching it and it has reminded me why I fell in love with animation and I felt compelled to post this topic. I was blown away by it on another level. Obviously when you watch it as a kid you take it at face value and think its a random cartoon with pretty colours and funny characters. Since learning more about animation, through joining this forum and learning from Adam's work and the other great animators on here, I watched this classic in absolute awe!  The amount of detail was insane. I was blown away and it has made me want to pick up my Wacom pen once again. I truely hope I will get time to pick it up again and get back into art and dabble in animation too. Not for any great reason other than to do it as a hobby and share and learn with everyone on here.

I loved Brackenwood forums before with all the animation competitions, an special effects animations etc etc, and I think since they stopped so did I. I really hope one day they will pick up again because this feeling of nostalgia I'm having is immense and has rekindled my love for animation!! I'm trying to make a point of watching an animation every week now.

I don't really know why I'm posting this. I think its purely because of this amazing feeling I'm having at the moment and I know you have all felt it too. Its awesome. I just had to post my feelings  


I'll post my opinion of the movie tomorrow night.

Anyway if you read that, thanks. Hope you understand  

[chluaid]

great post jugglz. I would love to start up the comps again at some point. Might start with a quick "Lightning animation and treatment" comp. I've always wanted to hold a small comp that includes treatment (filters, etc) as part of it. In a few weeks when I get back to one deadline at a time, I'll post it - unless one of our MotMs, Mods or Admin want to do one of their own

[Snowman]

I'd love to host the competitions, I don't know why but I enjoy posting them for everyone to join in on, and maybe occasionally participating as well. It's really cool to see what people come up with.

I was kind of confused by what you meant as treatment, Adam. Like, tell people to do a lightning animation then use a blur filter on it or something? As far as incorporating that into a competition, I was trying to think of how that would work.

[Juggleballz]

  Thanks Adam.

lol I kept pausing the DVD to explain squash and stretch, pose to pose and straight ahead animation, double bounce etc. to Veronica...who looked at me blankly lol.

As for new animation comps, I think it would be awesome. I know that there is 90% chance I won't have time to take part due to an insane amount of freelance work and training, but I will one day. I personally feel that if you held the competition Adam a lot more people would participate. I remember how you used to give a small tutorial or example based on the competition topic (like the fire one or water) and that was a big attraction to take part; knowing what you would be creating and how to do it. I know that's a big ask and understand you are busy so that might not always be the case. Once the ball gets rolling, some member animators (anghenfil, comlock bleegs etc) could possibly create comps for you to ease pressure. Anyway I'm letting my brain get ahead of me.  I'll be quiet now.

(I'm dying to watch sword in the stone again.)

[Juggleballz]

So I saw the Tim Burton sequel last night....

Not too sure how I feel about it. I know its a sequel but I'm not sure if it is based on Through the Looking Glass novel by Lewis Carroll or not. I have never read that book or really know anything about it but from what I do know, the Jabberwocky is in the book and in this movie as well  so maybe it is related.

Anyway, in terms of the disney classic this movie is very far removed. Again I haven't even read the original book Alice's Adventure in Wonderland, so maybe Disney even swayed from the original source material to make it more suitable for kids.

Judging the movie based solely on Alice in Wonderland by Disney, it is just okay. It lacks the inventiveness of the cartoon which seems odd as Tim Burton is normally very inventive and clever with his characters and quirks.

The best way I can describe it is that the whole film felt toned down. It lacks the craziness a zaneyness of the cartoon, the characters are nowhere near as over the top as the they are in Disney's version especially in their personalities, voices and clothes. Alice is dull and inexpressive throughout. The Queen of Hearts is toned down a lot as well which is a real shame. Her catch phrase "off with their heads" is weak and not very intimidating.

As much as I adore Jonny Depp, the Mad Hatter seemed waaaay too sane for my liking, and there wasn't enough tea being splashed about. lol. And the dance at the end....Pointless and tacked on.

All the caracter catchphrases were not as expressive as the cartoon's. Even the caterpillar who over emphasized the words "Whooooo....Arrrreeee....Youuu u" completely under empahsized these words in the movie. Its a shame, but I am totally biased in this regard. Maybe Burton read the books and believed the characters shouldn't be as expressive, but if the majority of the audience loves the cartoon, I feel you would try to give as many nods to it as you possibly can. They paid homage to a few smaller details like the rocking horse flies and talking flowers etc, but not were it really counted I'm afraid.

This is a very sporadic review to be honest. Just thinking as I'm typing. All in all it was enjoyable enough but not worth a second visit. Didn't feel enough like Alice in Wonderland for me to truly appreciate but I didn't NOT enjoy it. I just...I don't know. Its good in its own right but when its contending with a classic you can't help but criticise.

Maybe we all have our own view on how we would do it and therefore I don't feel one can truly love it.
(Our I could be talking shit, who knows)

[elephant]

Funny you've brought it up now, I've just been getting back into the classics myself (as evidenced by the youtube clip I posted in The Cave)... just got a copy of Aladdin too.
It's probably the fact I watched "The Princess and the Frog" a couple of days ago. And like you said Juggz, I think that one's contending with the classics just as much, because how it's seen as a "return to golden age of Disney animation".

Sadly, for me it really didn't live up to them... and it's not that the classics are wrapped in the sweet haze of nostalgia, which makes them somehow superior, it's just that they really were that much better.

When I was 2 years old, I drew a comic based on Walt Disney's "Snow White" and in the same sketchbook I also started "The Little Mermaid". About five years later, I adapted "Beauty and the Beast" into a little graphic novel of around 15 pages. Oddly enough I'm only now realising what an impact these bootleg VHS copies had on me back in the day.

As for Burton's "Alice in Wonderland", probably not going to see it... unless I don't have to pay for it, just don't care that much.

[Juggleballz]

Funny you've brought it up now, I've just been getting back into the classics myself (as evidenced by the youtube clip I posted in The Cave)... just got a copy of Aladdin too.
It's probably the fact I watched "The Princess and the Frog" a couple of days ago. And like you said Juggz, I think that one's contending with the classics just as much, because how it's seen as a "return to golden age of Disney animation".

Sadly, for me it really didn't live up to them... and it's not that the classics are wrapped in the sweet haze of nostalgia, which makes them somehow superior, it's just that they really were that much better.

When I was 2 years old, I drew a comic based on Walt Disney's "Snow White" and in the same sketchbook I also started "The Little Mermaid". About five years later, I adapted "Beauty and the Beast" into a little graphic novel of around 15 pages. Oddly enough I'm only now realising what an impact these bootleg VHS copies had on me back in the day.

As for Burton's "Alice in Wonderland", probably not going to see it... unless I don't have to pay for it, just don't care that much.

Oh shit, i didn't realise you replied Elephant. Sorry man. yeah I was curious about the frog and the princess but maybe because i'm always nostalgic the new disney cartoons don't do it for me much anymore. I find them all too saturated with colour, too clean and lacks that human element the originals had. SO would you recommend frog and princess?

I just watch Jungle Book again for the first time in years the other day. Blew my fucking mind. Such a movie!!! I watched it again with the commentary too and its soooo interesting as they break it down and explain things.

And it has possibly the best music in any Disney cartoon. it made me smile sooo much. Their attention to detail in the animation astounds me. Almost looks rotoscoped except way better. (obviously it wasn't though, just really clean and perfect )

I also watched sword in the stone again, and robin hood. I'm in disney heaven. So amazing.

[elephant]

Oh shit, i didn't realise you replied Elephant. Sorry man. yeah I was curious about the frog and the princess but maybe because i'm always nostalgic the new disney cartoons don't do it for me much anymore. I find them all too saturated with colour, too clean and lacks that human element the originals had. SO would you recommend frog and princess?

I just watch Jungle Book again for the first time in years the other day. Blew my fucking mind. Such a movie!!! I watched it again with the commentary too and its soooo interesting as they break it down and explain things.

And it has possibly the best music in any Disney cartoon. it made me smile sooo much. Their attention to detail in the animation astounds me. Almost looks rotoscoped except way better. (obviously it wasn't though, just really clean and perfect )

I also watched sword in the stone again, and robin hood. I'm in disney heaven. So amazing.

Don't sweat it. Whether or not I'd recommend Princess and the Frog... It pretty much follows the same formula any Disney princess story has. Except the songs aren't as good and the characters less lovable, but it's still worth seeing for the main antagonist alone. He's cool.

You know, I never saw Jungle Book. I shall acquire it!

[Juggleballz]

Don't sweat it. Whether or not I'd recommend Princess and the Frog... It pretty much follows the same formula any Disney princess story has. Except the songs aren't as good and the characters less lovable, but it's still worth seeing for the main antagonist alone. He's cool.

You know, I never saw Jungle Book. I shall acquire it!

OH MY GOD, PREPARE TO BE BLOWN AWAY.
And the songs are so amazing in it. Every little detail in the animation is gorgeous. I highly recommend watching the commentary version straight afterwards. Really insightful

I'll check out frog and the princess if I get the chance although i think i might be a little close minded to newer disney stuff. 

[the.crippled.dreamer]

  It's been several years since I watched the Jungle Book, but I recall there being an emotional depth and sophistication that's been largely absent from most (not all, but most) animated films during the last thirty years or so. Mogli has...that epiphany I guess one might say, upon seeing the young girl and feeling compelled to leave; I remember feeling the emotional struggle going on. With the exception of Miyazaki, more recently Pixar, and a few other exceptions, most animated films reek of executive fumbling; you can almost sense them squirming uncomfortably in their seats and cringing away from anything emotionally connecting. 

I'm relieved more people are starting to become more comfortable and accepting of rich storytelling and emotional depth in more fields. I could be wrong, but I believe it was Le Guin who lamented the day fantasy and the imagination were relegated to the nursery; she seemed to believe this subjected them to decades of narrow minded piggery, largely chauvinistic in nature as guys were slammed more if they so much as entertained the notion of allowing themselves to enjoy them. ...Those essays were rather illuminating.

...I need to quit writing when I'm exhausted--can't...shut...up

Great post jugglz! Did you ever see Millennium Actress? Now there's an intricate film with new details and connections popping up every time you see it. Three different aspects/perspectives to the story all going at the same time, overlapping and merging.